good research, Prattler - and a well written piece. I imagine that, when our troops do pull out, there will be a war like none has ever seen in that part of the "promised land". Nothing we do as bullies of the sand is going to change the final outcome of these peoples, but they will most like not follow us home. Being Commander has to be a trying position knowing that plenty of people - including media - slander the person that was elected by majority rule. There were a few moves that Bill Clinton should have made, but didn't. I feel it was fitting to retaliate, but where is Bin Laden? Did we not complete that mission, yet began a larger task with more force in one area than ever seen before? No doubt that the few thousand men of our military lost have saved tens (or, hundreds) of thousands of lives, but the real battle is in wait. The peoples involved around the lands fear our existence, yes. We can keep it all in "check" while there but will we always be there? There will come a day when all the mercenary groups and different entities of the land will be confronted by themselves, and it is difficult to gage that outcome. Maybe it will be a thousand year war, and the Israelites will get their land back.?..
I'm not really happy about our choices presented for President, but will not write in "Gomer Pyle" for president out of respect for a machine that has been in motion much longer than any one man (and his group) to steer it.
All "tax reformations" aside, Huckabee (not just for being white and male) might make me believe he is the best choice presented. A lot of Americans, I figure, will vote for "the woman", or, "the black" because it will be a change.
Back to the desert - when and how is the best pull-out option? Do we slip out in the night and just watch the fireworks? There has been plenty of time to build weapons and store fire power. The fear is what is in wait for their final battle....and will we take part?

As my daughter is covering her American Flag room (that she had to have after 9-11) with black fabric, I have to agree we have forgotten.

While I believe we are there for Oil not for 9-11, or our safety, we are there, so we need to finish what we have started. I will not vote for any candidate that claims they will have us out of there as soon as they are elected. On another note....

I have been thinking, I can only remember the same families running the white house... starting when President Bush Sr. was Vice. I was in fifth grade. I am FOR SURE NOT going to let Bill be the first lady! Sorry PRESIDENT BILL.

Stan, I agree. As I walked the halls of the Nebraska Museum of History I found many treasures. The exhibit that caught my eye was the WWII display. It took over half of the third floor. At the start of the display I walked under a sign that read "The War Starts". Then I walked past a cozy little living room with furniture of the period, including a radio which turned on as I walked past. From its speakers came announcements of the war and our efforts. Really neat. As I walked on I found rows and rows of pictures, letters, pins and flags all worn, carried or flown by American citizens. If you were not fighting you were doing your part at home. The patriotic feel to it was something I had only barely witnessed, as you had mentioned, right after 9/11. Since then, those feelings of us standing as a country has subsided with each passing year since 9/11. I do not think this was intended by the terrorist groups who fight against us but they will not complain. Our country has torn itself into three groups. One group who still fights for our rights, one group who uses those rights but will not fight for them and the third group who does nothing.
I was completely alone on the third floor so I took a moment at a very neat display and listened to the soldier's stories that were being played through a speaker above me. I sat on a bench and really listened. In every story I got the same message. They talked of the hardships of war and the sacrifices they each had made but were willing to make to make a difference.
I am not sure if we are making a difference in Iraq. I can only go on what I here via the media and they have it so twisted that you just can't make anything of it. Tonight on the news though I did hear that the Military has confirmed that over 75% of Baghdad is safe and since last year's numbers that is amazing. Will that peace hold after we leave? Again I am not sure. All I have is hope. I hope that the people who have seen this process will use it to better their future and the futures of their children. I can hope that the lives lost in this war will not be for nothing.
As for our President I hold a great amount of respect for him. He is a man who has lead this country through a dark time and has taken his beating for it. I can not view him as anything less. The great thing is that I do not agree with everything he does and I was given those rights by the blood of men and women over the years, the same men and women who fight today for Iraq's freedom.

All have made some valid comments and for the most part, those I do agree with, however as in all discusions you cannot always agree or there would be no reason to debate. As to the reason we are there the most common response is because of the the oil. It is my humble opinion that this is only a small part of the equation. First you look at the region, on one side is Iran, a known local military power in the region. To the north, Turkey whom has had on on going conflict with the Kurds for years. On the other border, Syria which is a puppet country for Iran and Palestine. Irag was in trouble before we invaded the country. Iran was supplying and continues to supply weapons to the terriorists groups in Iraq, Syria and the Taliban in Afganistan. The reason for this is that Irag whipped up on them in the Iraq /Iranian War. The sanctions that the U.N. placed on Irag was strangling them. Their military prowness was weakened because of the first Gulf War after they invaded Kuwait. In that short skirmish, we destroyed most of their weapon systems and the lack of funding and U.N. sanctions kept them from re-building their arsenal. Saddam invaded Kuwait because he wanted to control the flow of oil. Iran is a oil rich country, yet they have no refineries and ship nothing but crude oil. Yet, instead of building a couple of refineries they go into the development of Nuclear Power and potential nuclear weapons. Iran was supplying the terrorists groups to over throw Saddam, giving them safe country to operate out of, similar to Afganistan. In return, Iran would assume control of the oil industry of Iraq and continue to fund terrorists groups. They have a similar mode of operation with the eastern borders of Afganistan. Once in control of the oil in Irag, Iran would then become the largest oil producer in the area and control the market. Bearing in mind, that it is well known that as long as the political situation coninues in the U.S., oil development (ANWAR) or even new refineries will not be built so we are dependent on their oil. Over the past six months, Iran has become partners with Venzulea, another large source of oil for America. Their little dictator hates the U.S. and adores Fidel Castro. So now the oil axis is formed and Iran is the puppet master pulling the strings. Give them the time to develop their nuclear weapons and then they have two major components to dominate the region, nuclear weapons and oil. However, planned or unplanned, the U.S. stepped in to early into their plan and invaded Irag and took Suddam out of the equation. Now Iran has a serious problem, how to get the U.S. out of Irag, supply the terriorists with more weapons and in time the Amercian people will tire of their losses and retreat just as we did in Vietnam. But, instead of retreating, the Surge was implemented and now we are seeing the progress of more boots on the ground. The plan is working in all respects. Iran does not want the U.S. protecting Irag as it still makes them a smaller oil producer and still no refineries. This is also the reason for the little harrassment tactics in the Straits of Hermoz, enough tension in the area and the Americans will retreat due to political pressure at home. They watch our politcial news, they know we are having elections and they know each of the candidtates, most likely better than most Americans. Anytime one of our politicians say that they will pull out all of the troops after they are elected or our Congress ties up funding by placing a withdrawal date on the appropriations, they are only signalling to Iran that if they hold on eventually Irag will be theirs. The one thing they did not count on is that President Bush did not care about popularity numbers and vetoed any bill that had a mandantory date attached to it. So now they await our elections. The U.S. does not buy crude oil from Iran but if Iran was to get hold of the oil of Irag and with Venzulea in their back pocket, they can control about 50% of the oil coming to the U.S. If you think our gas prices are high now, what would they be like if we were to loose 50% of our imports? what affect would that have on our economy? (To be Continued)

The next question is how long do we stay in Iraq and should we bring our military forces home. Bringing our military home would be the biggest mistake that the U.S. could make since Vietnam! I say this knowing that we are going to loose more lives, knowing that I have relatives in Irag and will continue to in the future. Our military has to stay in Iraq until their government is stable and the country can defend itself. Once the Irag government is in place and cooperating among their three separate religous groups, we then negotiate with their government and build the largest U.S. military base in the region consisting of both Army and Air Force assets with the Naval Fleet continuing regular patrols in the region. We have the manpower and assets to do this without cutting or building the military. We should be there for a very long time. Our presense in the area will curtail the activities that has been going on there for years and support those in Iran that want to overthrow that dictatorship. Is it to much for us to handle, is the price to high? At the conclusion of the Korean War, there was no treaty signed between South and North Korea. The DMZ line was drawn separating the two countries and to protect South Korea from another invasion by North Korea, who was being supplied by China and Russia the U.S. built a large base in South Korea manned by the Army and Air Corce with the fleet operating in the region. That was fifty three years ago. No major skirmish has occurred durng this time frame and North Korea has been isolated. At the conclusion of WWII, because Russia was our alli, the city of Berlin was divided in half. The Russian's built the Berlin Wall to isolate their portion of the city. The U.S. built a large base, manning it with Army and Air Force assets. The base remains active today after sixty three years. The U.S. military forces, especially the Navy was cut back drastically by President Carter. Upon the election of President Reagan, the military forces were rebuilt and the naval fleet was increased to 500 ships. The pressure of this military build up, Star Wars and various other programs, President Reagan forced the U.S.S.R. into spending more money than it could make. The Berlin Wall was torn down, Germany once again became one country undivided and eventually the U.S.S.R. collapsed. The U.S. military base remains in Germany. Guantamino Bay in Cuba is a similar situation. You can have a U.S. military force in a region without it being considered an occupying force. Germany, Japan, South Korea, Italy, Turkey, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Greenland, Iceland, Cuba, Phillipines, Diego Garcia, to name just a few. General George Patton said it best when he was asked if he was going to withdraw his troops from Italy during WWII, "hell no, why should I give up the ground that so many of my men gave up their lives to take". Perhaps, there are lessons to learn from the past, if we just listen to the voices of those that have gone before us.

It is true no doubt that we can not pull out early(as Bill Clinton was prone to do-Huh Monica). Terrorism is unlike any war we have ever encountered. They desire to hit us again and will continue to try until they succeed.
Our President has had the courage and vision to take us to the offense and take preemptive action rather than react as Clinton did. How dare they critic the CinC in time of war, yes, we are in a war ever bit as real as WWI or WWII. The bullets are real, so are the IEDS. And our enemies lurk in Iran as well . Our next President must be chosen with these somber facts in mind-Vote for John Wayne. "Fill your hand you son of a bitch"

Saddam's ruthless reign and crude ways kept most of the smaller groups (surbs, kurds, etc.) in check - realizing the immense power of their structure.

http://www.economist.com/countries/Iraq/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-Political%20Structure

At this point, a new structure of reign is trying to build up to the point that it cannot be torn down. Jalal Talabani was elected President of Iraq April 6, 2005.

http://i-cias.com/e.o/talabani_j.htm

This individual has been a master of changing alliances since the beginning of his political career and has made several alliances with former enemies.
The long-worded post and comments here have shed some light on the subject of the ongoing conflict(s)
but there are so many other pieces that fall into the puzzle of why, and how long, we are there as a force to be feared. We, as America, have immense power over most of the world. It would take a lot of groups combining forces to kick us out - the bouncers aren't big enough, and we have "friends" with a similar end-result desired.
This subject can be - and has been - written and spoken of until breathless and the resulting end has anybody guessing the timely conclusion. As you stated, other battles have not necessarily concluded, but have been in check for decades. Our presence in Iraq is eminent for decades to come, but not in such great numbers when there is a "balance" found between all the entities involved and the overthrow of the Iraqi government by other vicious groups is nearly
impossible without ALL of them joining force. The nature of these groups prevents that. Much like hunting boar with bull dogs, when more than one is released at the same time, they end up fighting each other until not one has strength for the actual target.

http://www.revelations.org.za/MenuReturn.htm
and
http://www.awitness.org/biblehtm/re/re7.htm

The 10 lost tribes of Israel will reunite in the "end of times" and the last decade has been drawing in some blanks as to how. When? It may be another thousand years....even Nostradamus, who has been revered as a "divine" forseer, will not have predicted the "end" according to the last book of the Bible. Not to get to a preaching point, but, the Bible has more information proven as fact EVERY year than any book known to man. As far as any new Presidential candidate stating the "change" to pull troops out of the present conflict - they are pulling America's mind-strings into their favor, not openly admitting that we, as a country, will be a big part of the wars leading to the return of the land to Israel.

"Some prophecies concern the demise of the United States over the next year, which will be followed by man's final world war. This last war will be the result of clashing religions and the governments they sway."
http://the-end.com/2008GodsFinalWitness/?gclid=CKrgoYzpgpECFQl0gwodLluaHA

We can only guess, not pinpoint, the final outcome.
Thanks for spurring a LOT of research and interest, Stan.

In response to Ranger Bill's comment, is this trivia question! Rooster Cogburn (John Wayne) the movie was True Grit and Robert Duvall shot his horse out from under him, Rooster's horses name was "Buck" But, Rooster won by killinf three and wounding Robert Duvall, but Glenn Cmabell saved the day by killing Duvall with a Sharps Rifle shot which was about 2.5 miles away. Good movie, the "Duke" got the Oscar for it, his only Oscar but should have recieved it for his best and last movie, "The Shootist".

his horse was actually named Bo

Oh, but you are right Ranger Bill, who am I to argue with a "Duke" fan! His horse's name was "Bo"! Who the hell was "Buck"? Oh, now I remember, that was the Blue Ducks. Blue Duck Rode Buck but Blue Buck Killed His Dad With A Lance Through His Back and Away He Did Ride, Blue Duck On Buck.